Originally conducted for the defunct magazine, "Proof". Circa September 1999.

Interview conducted and courtesy Ba Kuai.

Proof: How old were you when you first started rapping?

Del: It’s been a while now. I guess since about fourth or fifth grade.

P. How did you first hook up with the rest of the Hiero crew?

D. Well I’ve known A-Plus and Tajai for a while so I guess that’s kinda like the center right there. But gradually, we started meeting other people who were into the same kinda things we were into. We were all just into rap. Cube (Del’s cousin) just happened to have a record out and so that was pretty much my link into the industry part of rap.

P. Did Ice Cube do a lot of production on your first CD, I Wish My Brother George Was Here?

D. Actually DJ Pooh did a lot more. I did some production on the album as well, but Pooh sort of polished it up.

P. This album has a much different sound than any of your other albums. It has a big funk influence to it. You have samples from people like George Clinton, James Brown, and Donald Bird. It’s definitely your most playful album. What sort of stuff were you going through in you life when you made it?

D. Nothing really to tell you the truth. I was a youngster at the time so life hadn’t really hit me yet. I was just having fun.

P. You took a completely different turn with your next CD, No Need for Alarm. You lost the funk style of your first album and switched to a harder flow. The music had much more of a rock vibe to it. You showed a lot more anger. I mean, you talk a lot of shit with songs like “Wack MC’s”, “Boo Boo Heads”, “Your in Shambles”, and “Treats for the Kiddies”.

D. Well, I tried to take it back to the essence pretty much. On the first album there was a lot of that shit that I couldn’t do because Cube just didn’t think it would sell. So, the second album, I had a lot more control over. It was more angry because that was the time period I was in. Shit wasn’t going my way so I went wacko with that one pretty much.

P. What kind of shit was going wrong?

D. Basically, I didn’t get to do exactly what I wanted to do on my first album. A lot of people was making fun of me and shit. You know, the little underground click was like “Awe, this ain’t the underground shit. What did Cube do to you.” I had demos and shit out before that, and people knew me for that before I came out with my first album. So when I came out with my first album, it was such a difference in a lot of ways, that people was like “This ain’t the real shit.” But now I understand that they was just jealous basically. Nah’m sayin’. They was just wishing they could be where I was and I shouldn’t have let that get to me. ‘Cuz I did what I wanted to on my first album. I was just swayed by a lot of peer pressure basically by the time the second album came out. Now I’m grown enough that I can look back at that and say “Okay I really do like that album [I Wish My Brother George Was Here] now.

P. Let’s get into your third album, Future Development. This is another completely different album with a completely different vibe to it. You have some ass shaking songs like “Why Ya Want To Get Funkee”, “Don’t Forget the Bass”, and “Town to Town”. There are some hard core songs. There are some songs that get a bit preachy like “Faulty”, “Love is Worth”, and “Games Begin.”

D. You look at that as preachy? So, it’s good that I’m not going to do that anymore. ‘Cuz I don’t want to be seen like that.

P. It just seems like in your recent songs, you are able to express your ideas more subtly.

D. I’m just into a new thing now. If I got something to say, I’m going to disguise it as something else. You ain’t gonna even know if I got a specific thing that I’m talking about unless you get hella deep into the song and listen to it. But on the surface, it’s just gonna be like “Ooh, he rippin’.” And that goes with this [book] Funk. It’s about black music and how it evolved into funk and how funk evolved into hip-hop.

P. Who’s the author?

D. Ricky Vincent. Up in the Bay. I think he had a little radio thing up there. So it starts from like, Negro spirituals, all the way up to hip-hop. And funk is a big part of that. It’s basically the street shit. The core shit. Like right now, a lot of people think the gangsta shit or the street shit is fake, and that’s not the real rap and all that shit. Well actually, that’s the shit that really mattered to everybody back then. It’s kinda like how jazz was for a minute. They used to call R & B bad jazz. Like, all the super-intellectual types. And this was within the black community. ‘Cuz R & B came from the country but jazz was like a more sophisticated music that came from the city. And then [R & B] just started to take over jazz. A lot of people that was doing jazz just started to get with this new sound. ‘Cuz it would be more gritty and real. I’ve always been like that in a way. I’m just basically gonna be bustin’ and if you can catch something out of that then you can, but on the surface, I’m just gonna be rippin’, you know. Sort of like how George Clinton got a lot of social commentary in his music if you listen to it deep enough. But, on the surface, it’s like “Ooh, I can groove to that. That’s some good music.” If you want to get deeper, It’s there.

P. On the Hiero collaboration, Third Eye Vision, your lyrics were much more complex. It seems like you really grew a lot from the time you did Future Development ‘til Third Eye. Then in Handsome Boy Modeling School, you just ripped it up with “Magnetizing”.

D. Now that’s a song right there where if you want to listen to hard enough, I got some little jewels you can pick out. But if you just want to listen to it on the surface, you can just enjoy me for rippin’ it. But it’s there if you want to see it.

P. We’ve noticed that you don’t mention names anymore when you talk shit in your songs. What made you decide to stop directly talking shit to people and to hide it in your music?

D. Nothing really. I’ve been going that way anyway. I’ve decided that I don’t want to over complicate things. Like, as far as you were saying how some of my songs could be taken as preachy or whatever. I ain’t going to win that way, so if I’ve got something to say, I’m gonna disguise it as something else. And then if you want to know what it is, you can listen to it hard enough and figure it out. You kinda know what I stand for in the first place so it don’t need to be said. But, like, just a straight direct assault or something like that, I’m not gonna do that. And [I’ve been changing] production wise too. I’ve been moving more and more towards creating my own melodies, and not relying so much on sampling loops. One for a creative aspect, and two because anyone with a drum machine can make a beat and loop it. So to separate me from the thousands of other producers that just loop shit, I gotta be better. Basically, I’m thinking about twenty years from now when everything is played out and this shit ain’t even existing no more, it’s already moved on to the next phase. I want to be one of those guys that takes this music to the next phase whatever that is. ‘Cuz hip-hop ain’t gonna last forever. It’s gonna transform into something else like funk did and just like R & B did. It ain’t gonna stay the same way, but it’s gonna have the same elements. Basically, it’s gonna get to a point that it’s so commercialized anybody can do it and it’s available for everybody. So black people is gonna get sick of it and create something new from the ground up.

P. So, there will always be underground music?

D. Let me say something. I don’t even like that word underground. Because that is already putting you in a place where you can’t get any farther than underground. And people take praise in that name as if just because no one has heard you before, that makes your music good. And that’s not true. And just because your mainstream, that don’t mean your music is weak. Like people be hatin’ on Jay-Z, I like Jay-Z. Just ‘cuz he sell hella records, don’t mean he can’t be a good artist. Same with Eminem. There’s a lot of people who think he’s bullshit. They don’t know nothing about Eminem. He’s hard. I’m trying to make some money, nah’m saying. But I don’t have to sacrifice who I am to do it at all.

P. But you don’t think there are people who sacrifice it all to make their money.

D. Like who?

P. Like Puffy.

D. I don’t think he’s sacrificing anything. I don’t even consider him a rapper, I consider him a businessman period. So he’s not concerned with trying to be hip-hopped out. There’s always people that’s going to try to beat the system and try to do shit the easy way. That goes with anything in life. I feel that it’s all hip-hop. And who’s to say which music is better? Let me paraphrase a quote from this book [Funk]. “You can’t enjoy the funk if you sit back analyzing it all the time.” If you sittin’ back and criticizing every inch of the music, how are you really .gonna enjoy it? It’s not really to be analyzed; it’s more to feel. I’m gonna tell you the test that I look at. If I get in my patna’ car and I give him my tape, and he put it in the deck, if he don’t feel it the minute it comes on, it’s outa there. He don’t give a fuck what you talkin’ about. If it ain’t bumpin’, if it ain’t tight, it’s outa there. Right now, I’m really concentrating more on my music. First thing’s first, I can’t rely on other peoples melodies too much, unless I find something so dope that I gotta sample it. I still use samples of course, but I gotta freak ‘em in a way where it’s not just another record I’m rappin’ over. I still use elements of samples I’ll just play my own melody. I’ll sample a piano hit like “doink”, then I’ll play my own melody with it. And I’ll center it around some noises or something just to fill up the places where there ain’t no music goin’ on. Here’s my test right here. If I make a beat and I’m humming it all day than it’s good. If it’s something I can’t remember, than fuck it I gotta start over and come up with something better. ‘Cuz that’s what people listen to first. And I got this other book on writing songs that said, “Lyricists, you gotta learn about melody and music composers you gotta learn about lyrics. But more important is that lyricists learn about melody.” And it also says, “Lyricists, I know you don’t want to hear that melody means more than your lyrics, but it do. And your lyrics gotta complement the melody.” So I’m just into a whole process of making songs now. One thing I’ve learned is you gotta have originality over everything else. And the record companies, and the whole music business will have you thinking otherwise like, “You gotta copy Master P to do it ‘cuz there’s so many copies if him on the radio. But they’re not really making that much money if you think about it. There’s only one Master P. All them other motherfuckers is just ridin’ on his coattails. They ain’t never gonna be as big as Master P. So the main thing is to be original over everything else. Be original and don’t lose the audience by trying to be so complex that cain’t nobody understand you. Not with the lyrics, ‘cuz I feel that there ain’t nothing wrong with my lyrics. But I know that there’s a way that I can tighten up my lyrics to where I have a flow that I use with this beat and that’s it for the rest of the album. And then the next beat, I come with a whole ‘nother flow. Q-Tip did that a lot on his album. He has different flows for every song. Even though he might not be rappin’ about anything in particular, it doesn’t matter. It just sounds good. You know that this song ain’t this other song. Eminem changes his shit up a lot too. Sometimes I make so many songs they become indistinguishable from one another. You know? Same type of chorus. I started getting bored with my shit. Then I just figured out. Okay, so I’m supposed to be original. I was right all along. So that just gave me the go to just be more creative.

P. Which other artists are you listening to right now?

D. Jay-Z, Beck has one of my favorite albums right now, Midnight Vultures. He’s impressive to me because he has such a wide range of music. He started off doing folk music and shit. And then he went from there, to everything. And he’s funny; he injects humor into his music. He’s a good writer. I’m listening to his lyrics like, “Awe he said this; he hella clean.” He’s a true artist.

P. I think you have managed to change your music up always.

D. I think so too, but unconsciously. Now that I’m doing it consciously, it’s just going to get better. I’m really happy about it actually. ‘Cuz I feel like I’m free in a sense. I ain’t gotta worry about what these other people say. ‘Cuz what they say don’t matter. I’m the one that do the music. I’m the one that sets the trends.

P. Speaking of setting trends, what was it like working in the studio with Prince Paul and Dan the Automator for Handsome Boy Modeling School?

D. Well I busted the rap for that beforehand, and Paul was satisfied with it. But the shit that was going on my new album [Both Sides of the Brain], he had me do them lyrics over and over. He’s a real perfectionist in the studio. Basically, he made me do my same rap over and over in different intonations from lower to more hype, and then he listened to them all to figure out which one he really wanted for that song. So, I peeped what he was trying to do even though at the time I was like, “The first time was good enough for me.” He’s a perfectionist. He’s all jokey and shit, but he’s all work in the studio.

P. Didn’t Automator do a track on Both Sides of the Brain also.

D. Well, he did a remix for me. I’m working on an album with Automator now called 3030. The whole thing is pretty much on that Cyberpunks tip. But I got subject matter and shit on there too. 3030 is like the time period that it happens in, three thousand thirty.

P. It seems like you’ve been meditating a lot on technology and it’s effects on the human race in the future. What are your thoughts about the next fifty years, one hundred years, 3030, etc…?

D. To tell you the truth, I don’t really think about it that much. That’s kinda like a little floating thought I have now and then so I decided to build on it. I had to do a lot of research for that 3030 project though to tell you the truth. ‘Cuz I don’t really concentrate on it all that much. You can’t keep saying RAM, drive, ROM, disc. You can’t use that every song, so I had to do hella research to stretch that concept a whole album. I read technical manuals, science magazines, video games, I watched a lot of sci-fi Anime.

P. What else have you been up to lately?

D. I’ve been studying music theory, and how to read and write music, and making a gang of beats. I’m making two to three beats every day, into the night time, until I just pass out and cain’t work no more. But it takes a long time for me to make a beat now. I cain’t be satisfied with just anything anymore. It’s gotta be good. I can’t settle for just saying “I like it.” It don’t matter if I like it. I’ve realized that music is for people to listen to. So if I like it, it ain’t a good enough judgement. I’ve gotta be thinking will other people like this? “Cuz of course I’m gonna like it I made it. Music is to effect people. It’s for people to enjoy. So I’ve gotta have people in mind when I’m making it. Before I didn’t. I was like, “If I like it that’s cool.” And I guess I’ve been lucky to where people liked whatever I liked to a certain extent. But now I have people in mind when I make music. I’m not so big-head artist anymore. I have balanced my ego with what’s really going on now. This is an interesting time for me, man. It started off with my life just getting better in general. Everything just kinda hit a point to where I understand a lot of shit right now. So of course it just dripped down into my music.

P. Lets talk about the web sight a little bit now (www.hieroglyphics.com). This sight has been around for a long time now. Who’s idea was it to start it?

D. That was Stinky. He was a big fan and he started it. Tajai stumbled over it and we called Stinky up and made it an official Hiero web sight.

P. You guys had a lot of tapes that you released only through the web sight. Why didn’t you try to put it in stores?

Del: We wanted to make sure that that stuff wasn’t mistaken as our brand new stuff since we left our label. That was just some underground stuff for the cats who were up to it. I’m actually working on an internet only album right now which is not old stuff at all. It’s all new stuff. I’m doing it basically for my fans. If my Del album blows up, a lot of people tend to be like “Oh he’s on TV now, he sold out.” So I’m making it basically as a gift for my fans. So they’ll still have that one thing that nobody else has. So they can be like, “Yeah, you’ve got that but I’ve got the real Del album.” So it’s basically like a treat for my fans.

P. You recently did a show for SEGA. Can we expect to see a Del or Hiero video game coming soon?

D. I hope not. ‘Cuz that would mean they just using us to sell a game on our name. But I would like to work behind the scenes and make the music for a game. They would have to hide my name in the credits though. I wouldn’t want it to be a selling point.

P. You are a serious work-a-holic bro.

D. Nahm’ sayin?

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Quick A-Plus interview:

P. Back in the day, we both saw you when Souls was touring with Pharcyde. How did you all end up together?

A. That was a lot of fun touring with them back then. They’re some cool cats. We actually had met them a long time ago. We exchanged demos and we both had anticipated albums coming out at about the same time. We just fit into the same kinda bracket, so we have all been friends since then. As a matter of fact, Souls is doing an album with them now. It’s called Mighty Python. It’s going to be with three of the members of Pharcyde. It’s got Imani, Bootie Brown, and a bit from [Slim Kid] Tre. It’s coming out tight. It’s not done and we don’t have a release date yet but, it’s definitely going to be on some different shit. Some wild shit. Some crazy shit. The people who like Pharcyde and Souls are either going to love it or hate it I think.

P. So you’re tryin’ to get into some different stuff now?

A. Yeah, it’s just some wild shit. It’s like some, you know, your inhibitions is gone type shit. It’s still going to be us, but we are going to say some of the sings you couldn’t say as a Soul or a Pharcyde.

P. So what’s happening with Fatlip? Is he still around at all?

A. He’s actually doing a solo album now. I’ve been trying to get up with him, but he’s hard to get in contact with. He’s not in Pharcyde the last I heard.

P. We’ll keep our eyes peeled for a release date.

A. (As he coughs out a huge hit) Damn, the chron just be invigorating. That’s bad, but it’s true. I woulda gone down the wrong road if I didn’t smoke.